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Masticrom

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re: Survival Rating VS. Mitigation Rating

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Okay, now there is a way to gear tanks as most ppl know, but some think that the only way is to hit def cap, and just gem the fuck out of stam. But do you actually honestly know that when you hit def cap, you have options as to how you go.

Survival or Mitigation

Survival is just sheer health increase, while Mitigation involves more of you armor, dodge, parry, and block.

If you have a tank, how do you go?
Bananashroom



Joined: 30 Jun 2009
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re: Survival Rating VS. Mitigation Rating

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i read some posting on warr tanking before actually going into it, but it shows that im not really a master of it =p

My reason for stacking stam is for EH, or effective health. its the only stat that doesnt have diminishing returns. some dude do some calculation and came up with stacking stam is the best eventually(maybe with access to better gear /shrug). so thats the reason i stack mostly stack stam and mitigition from gears. With the icc buff, tanks are having really high amount of health now and can gear for mitigation? well there's only so much dodge/parry/block before you have to take a hit like a man. thats my 2cents
Wreckrium

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re: Survival Rating VS. Mitigation Rating

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Stam.

Everything else is moot to stack.


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Masticrom

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re: Survival Rating VS. Mitigation Rating

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I personally stack more mitigation before stam. Its proven to me enough times to be a life saver when your down to one healer on somethings and I've seen tanks that just as you say, stack Stam, and seen them fall flat on their faces in those crucial times. Not to mention, having someone who gears more for mitigation assists healers in those" OH SHIT" moments they have where they cant heal the tank, and are wondering if anyone else is.
Wreckrium

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Well Dodge is le suck now.
They've completely removed Shield Block stats from gear.

Parry is the only real option, but I refuse to stack Parry as a tank.


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Brasidas!

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re: Survival Rating VS. Mitigation Rating

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to summarize the shit i read on tanking resources these days, here's a quote

look at it this way, every point of armor you get is better than the last. To make it easier to explain, lets say you have enough armor to get 90% damage reduction. I know that it isn't possible, but it makes it easier to explain. You have 90% DR through armor, but lets say you pick up this piece and it moves you to 91% damage reduction through armor. You only gained 1%, BUT going from 90% to 91% you actually reduced the damage you were taking by 10%. So lets say you have a boss who hits for 100,000 damage. With 90% damage reduction, you will only be getting hit for 10,000 damage. If you go from 90% to 91%, you are now only taking 9000 damage. That 1% DR increase caused you to take 10% less damage. Then you go from 91% to 92%. You went from getting hit for 9000 damage to 8000 damage. So that 1% DR caused you to take 12% less damage. Then going from 92% to 93% causes you to only get hit for 7000 instead of 8000. That 1% caused you to take 13.5% less damage. It goes up and up and up. Going from 97% DR to 98% DR causes you to take 33% less damage, and 98% DR to 99% DR causes you to take 50% less damage.

On a more realistic scale though. A tank who has 66% DR through armor who gets a piece of bonus armor gear and then suddenly has 67.5% DR will gain a TON of damage mitigation. Then he gets another few pieces of the armor gear and then goes up to 69% DR. He will take even less, and the amount of damage mitigation will actually look even better.

Just some math to throw out there.
Lets just say that a bosses physical attacks deal 150,000 damage with two paladin tanks. Tank #1 has 65% damage reduction from armor and 15% damage reduction through talents and glyphs. Paladin #1 essentially has 80% damage reduction, so he only takes 20% of the damage. He gets hit for 30k.

Tank #2 has cataclysmic chestguard, pillars of might, gargoyle spit bracers, gauntlets of the kraken, sentinels winter cloak, and verdigris chain belt. All the gear with the bonus armor. Lets just make it easy and say he has 70% damage reduction from armor, and 15% damage reduction through talents. He has 5% more physical damage reduction from all that armor. He has 85% damage reduction, so he only takes 15% of the 150k. Paladin #2 only takes 22500 damage. The 5% armor from the extra armor gear reduces damage by quite a bit and definatly noticable by the healers.

Between the two tanks, tank #2 has 5% more damage reduction. Doesn't seem like much, but the fact is 7500 is 25% of 30,000. So tank #2 might be taking only 5% less damage, but thats 5% of the bosses raw damage (my example was 150,000), which is 7500. He is taking 5% less damage, but to all the healers and the rest of the raid, hes taking 25% less damage than tank #1.

Now my math isn't exact, and I never said it was so don't sit here and try and correct me, because that isn't my point. I was only throwing numbers out there to prove a point. My point is that even though armor suffers from diminishing returns, it is still a very very effective way to increase damage mitigation. Once you see the numbers, you will know. It is also a good idea to pick these up because of the simple fact that blizzard wants tanks to have less avoidance and higher health/armor values because they don't want to see a tank get 2 shotted because he didn't dodge or parry 2 really big swings.


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Wreckrium

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re: Survival Rating VS. Mitigation Rating

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I'm not sure that serious tanks will ever gem dodge or parry at the expense of Stamina to any great degree. As long as dragons breathe, there will be elements of encounters where health is more useful than avoidance.

However, I think avoidance overall will still be more valuable in Cataclysm than it is on Live today when your healers risk running out of mana. The theoretical tank with a huge health pool and 0% avoidance should feel like a liability instead of the holy grail it is viewed as today.

We're trying to shake [some] tanks out of the mentality that something is garbage unless it improves health or armor. That's not the same as saying that tanks will value dodge and parry and view health and armor as garbage instead.


-Ghostcrawler


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