Firelands: Ragnaros

kaasi · Friend Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 350

in agreement with klik this is pretty normal for first attempts on a new boss.
me for example, i was one of the highest on damage taken from lava wave. but those hits all came between attempts 1-6
for attempts 7-14 i only took 1 hit from lava wave

GM Fright · Officer Joined: 01 May 2008 Posts: 2698

I know there's a learning curve, especially for you helmet-wearing mouth-breathing bucket-drooling healers, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I wasn't pointing out how bad at everything all of you always are. Or something like that.

I know that on new boss attempts, healers like to stare at healing bars, DPS likes to stare at recount, tanks like to stare at their health bars, and I like to stare at DBM timers/boss cast bars/raid frames/people that are screwing it up, etc. My point, though, is that we'd all be a lot better off if we worried much, MUCH more about the MECHANICS of a new fight FIRST.

For instance, melee, I know you're terribly sensitive about your parry chance, I guess I learned that last night. But, while we're learning a fight, and I'm watching half of you and all our healers get tossed around and destroyed by flame waves every attempt, your parry chance is simply not a priority. Junkr and I are running around half the damned room jumping on traps, because that's what's necessary. If it was necessary for me to drop every bit of spell hit I had in order to learn a fight and defeat it, then I would. And if it's necessary for you to stand in front of a boss for a bit while we learn a fight that is not at all a DPS race, then just suck it up and bear it, and we can discuss adjusting that minor detail later.
I appreciate you wanting to get every ounce of DPS on a boss that you can, and you wouldn't be in the guild if you didn't have that mentality, but sometimes things need to be prioritized. When I tell you something in a raid, even when I say it like the asshole that I am, I promise I've got a reason for it. Don't get pissy and defensive and all Sobzen on me. Just do it, and if there's a terrible, horrible, life-threatening, devastating consequence that I was too stupid to see, no doubt Obzen will tell me in officer chat, or you can whisper me and let me know. I've got a lot to worry about on progression, especially end-boss progression, the last thing I need are a bunch of DPS yelling at me because they're worried their numbers might suffer a bit. My numbers have suffered every night on every boss for the last year and 9 months, but raid leading is one of those necessary things. So please, help me help you. Help me, help you.

Healers, if your raid frames or your hot keys or your blindfold or your whatever are not positioned in a way that will let you watch your surroundings as well as health bars, then you need to adjust your UI. If you can't have the boss targeted for cast bars AND heal at the same time, then something needs to be changed. It should not be -avoid things- OR -heal-. It's gotta be both, even (especially) on new bosses, or progression will be an even more grueling process than it should be.

We cannot approach new progression fights in a "DPSDPSDPSDPS HEAL HEAL HEAL HEAL HEAL DPSDPS HEAL HEAL HEAL!!!!!!!!!!" manner, as we often do. I harp on people about mechanics over and over and over and over and over because they are IMPORTANT. Almost everytime I'm getting on the healers for something, it's not simply "you didn't heal enough," instead it's "you ignored this fight mechanic and people died." (focus shannox tank after a dog dies, don't fall through holes up top in beth'tilac, don't ignore spiderling DPS on beth'tilac, ignore DPS and focus on tanks only on ph1 alysrazor, get your cooldowns right on majordomo, tank heal proactively on big trash pulls, etc etc etc) I stopped worrying about DPS 6 months ago. I never say "omigosh ur DPS was trrble." What I do say, all the freakin time, is "dammit get to that orb," "check your fucking interrupts," "avoid that damned fire," "someone hop on that fucking crystal," "get out of the fucking lava," etc etc etc. Are you catching my theme here? We are not short on people who know how to DPS target dummies or heal Patchwerk tanks, but we sometimes find ourselves short of people with their computer monitor turned on.
Focus more on the mechanics, and when we start wiping to enrage timers or tanks getting melee'd to death, then we can start turning the dial the other direction. Imagine last night if no one got hit by a flame wave, and if we beat every son of flame to 50% then switched off every time until they were all under 50%, and just knocked the close ones backwards. You think it would matter if we spent 15 minutes in phase one if no one got hit by flame waves? I don't. You think it would be the end of the world if the raid did 50% less DPS during the transition, but no adds hit the hammer? I think the opposite.

I often compare learning a new boss to learning a new dance (something I've never done, but whatever...). You will learn the steps to the dance by reading strats and watching video's, and you will learn to perform the dance by attempting the actual boss. However, you can't expect to perform the dance without having learned the steps first, and you can't expect to jump in and do the whole dance the first time at full speed. Get rid of whatever misconception you might have that we should go in and aim to one-shot every boss. You know what the biggest factor separating us from world/realm first guilds is? They will raid for hours and hours and hours 4, 5 and 6 days a week. Galt raids 16 hours a week, we raid 9 hours a week. So follow the steps of the process and know when it's time to do what, and progression will become less frustrating for everyone involved.

THAT, Klik, was a wall of text.

Amminidabtree · Joined: 20 May 2010 Posts:

I was going to type all of that out, but it looks like Fright beat me to it.

Siletense · Raider Joined: 02 Aug 2009 Posts: 426

GM Fright wrote:

For instance, melee, I know you're terribly sensitive about your parry chance, I guess I learned that last night. But, while we're learning a fight, and I'm watching half of you and all our healers get tossed around and destroyed by flame waves every attempt, your parry chance is simply not a priority.

Some of us aren't worried about it but the rogues and I cannot use some of our abilities unless we're behind the boss. That position on the side it classified as "behind" him and if we're going to be there on the actual attempts we need to learn the ins and outs of the fight from where we are going to end up being.

Klik · Friend Joined: 29 Jul 2010 Posts: 212

TL; DR

Just kidding, I understand what you're saying, absolutely I do.

I made my post for a number of reasons, one being sometimes we just need to see exactly what we're subconsciously doing out in the open in plain text/words/speech (especially as healers)... and not just from you. As I wrote it all down and proof-read it, I saw the error in that line of thought, but I felt it still needed to be put out in the open. We all need to shift our thought patterns from what we do best and filter in what your intent is. We get so focused on downing shit and ranking, and beating each others meters that we hear you, but don't "hear" you.

Plus I'll almost guarantee that every one of us whether we admit it to ourselves in dark quiet rooms or not, are slightly afraid to put up shitty numbers and let that new kid on the block get an edge on our spot, and that blurs our ability to hear you as well.

Maybe this conversation will help bring our purpose/ability/etc and your intent to a clearer portrait of what we need to do.

If not, we'll keep fucking up, you'll keep calling us cumbuckets and eventually it'll all come together. Hopefully though, it will be the former.

Yeetawh · Joined: 22 Jul 2010 Posts:

Next time you might not want to say "I don't give a flying fuck about your parry chance", and instead say something like "just live with the parries for now, later on when we're closer to getting a kill we'll make the proper adjustments to raise dps".

Sometimes it's hard to decipher whether you're actually yelling about something or just "yelling".

-Bellasaer- · Joined: 06 Jul 2010 Posts:

^ That was me by the way. Was on yeet's laptop and made a grave error, hah

GM Fright · Officer Joined: 01 May 2008 Posts: 2698

Oh yeah? WELL FUCK YOU, YEETAWH! WHAT DO YOU CARE ABOUT PARRIES ANYWAY?!?! FUCKING HEALERS!!

GM Fright · Officer Joined: 01 May 2008 Posts: 2698

Oh, well fuck you too, bell....

Like I said, I know I usually say thing like an asshole, because over the internet where no one can punch me in the face, it's easy to be an asshole, and on progression I'm just on edge to start. I'm a terrible person, and imperfect in many, many ways. My post above was me saying "just live with whatever I tell you to do for now, and later on we'll make the proper adjustments if necessary," and whenever I say a sentence with "fuck" in it during progression, just substitute in the previous line, add a splash of trust, mix well, and serve chilled.