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Bananashroom



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re: DK info.

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gonna post some random info on dk whenever i found anything new.

#showtooltip Death Coil
/cast [modifier:shift,target=Pet] Death Coil
/cast [nomodifier] Death Coil

pressing shift will heal your ghoul. not necassarily important but might be useful at times i guess? there was a discussion that if you use glyph of dark embrace, you can prevent rp from getting capped but still gain 20rp. or something like that.

#showtooltip Scourge Strike
/cast [target=pettarget,harm,nodead][] Claw
/cast Scourge Strike

this is one of the reason my pet sticks to my target. take note that a transformed ghoul's claw hits more then 1 target. so if there is cc involve, this might be risky.

#showtooltip Unholy Frenzy
/cast [modifier:shift,target=Warrior'sName] Unholy Frenzy
/cast [nomodifier] Unholy Frenzy
/cast [nomodifier] Summon Gargoyle

Its said to effect warr better then us. we could make obz OP. if you want to use it on yourself its fine. i got mine targetted to obz, thats if he doesnt die.
Take note that on Chimaeron, the best time to use it is during fued. fued is when the dragon heads starts fighting each other. and directly after that, he will use massacre, which will drop you to 1hp. so it is IMPORTANT to click off your unholy frenzy before he cast massacre.


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Sterne1140
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re: DK info.

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Does Unholy frenzy stack?


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Hulkssmash



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re: expertise

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ok, lets get real on some expertise here:

if stat priority is:

Strength
Hit
Haste
Expertise
Crit

(mastery/agility suck)

Now, i know the Exp cap is 23/26 for heroics and raids, but how important is that exactly? how does it stack up against haste?

I have a potential 253 points of just reforged expertise which could be going into haste, but it would drop my exp down to just a couple points. is there an "acceptable balance" of 15 or something? or is EJ wrong and Expertise really is more important than haste?
Bananashroom



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re: DK info.

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i think its more of

str
hit
haste
crit
exp
mastery

Personally, i have 7 expertise. it doesnt seem to effect my dps much(might look into the explanation of it)
Crit is good cause it affect your ghoul too. since the ghoul does quite a lot of our dps. thats probably why its better then expertise.


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Hulkssmash



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re: DK info.

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anyone know the haste cap?

I know there is a soft cap for mages, is there anything like that for us?


Last edited by Hulkssmash on 01/12/2011 3:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Hulkssmash



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re: Re: DK info.

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Bananashroom wrote:



#showtooltip Scourge Strike
/cast [target=pettarget,harm,nodead][] Claw
/cast Scourge Strike

this is one of the reason my pet sticks to my target. take note that a transformed ghoul's claw hits more then 1 target. so if there is cc involve, this might be risky.



According to EJ.com, this will also boost your dps. I guess the ghoul is lazy and doesnt click his claw button enough so you have to do it for him.
Hulkssmash



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re: Re: expertise

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Hulkssmash wrote:


Now, i know the Exp cap is 23/26 for heroics and raids, but how important is that exactly? how does it stack up against haste?


Did some digging on the logs tonight, interesting stuff. more tomorrow, but for now, haste is clearly favored against exp, crit less so.
Bananashroom



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re: DK info.

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Necrotic Strike's absorption effect is now reduced by the target's resilience. In addition, its debuff duration has been reduced to 10 seconds, down from 15.
The spell hit bonus previously given by Virulence (Unholy) has been rolled into the Runic Focus passive effect that all death knights possess.

Blood
Bone Shield now has 4 charges, up from 3.
If Death Strike is used while a Blood Shield is already active, the new absorb will stack with the old one instead of replacing it.
Scarlet Fever now applies via Blood Plague, rather than Blood Boil.

Frost
Chilblains now also causes Chains of Ice to root the target for 1.5/3 seconds.
Hungering Cold now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.

Unholy
Blightcaller (Mastery) has been redesigned and renamed Dreadblade. It increases all Shadow damage by 2.5% per point of mastery.
Death's Advance (new talent): While both Unholy Runes are depleted, movement-impairing effects cannot reduce the death knight below 75/100% of normal movement speed.
Sudden Doom is now triggered only from main-hand auto attacks, and is normalized according to weapon speed rather than having a fixed percentage chance.
Virulence has been redesigned. It now grants 10/20/30% additional disease damage.

Glyphs
Glyph of Dark Succor (new talent) raise the minimum healing done by Death Strike from 7% to 20% of maximum health, but only while in Unholy or Frost Presence.

patch noters 4.0.6


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Bananashroom



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there you go, dw unholy nerf. cause the main reason why dw unholy is hax cause it procs a lot of sudden doom. so its like a machinegun deathcoil. but its still yet to be seen as 1 hander+ shit ton haste = still more attack then 2 hander+shit ton of haste. we have to wait for EJ to do the maths and discuss.

I kinda like the stack shield for death strike. make death strike spam hax lololol

The new glyph/spell can probably work both ways for either pvp or pve i guess. those of shit moment when you need a heal in raid.

Mastery change is interesting. harder hitting death coil? hmmm if thats the case and 1handers procs more. you can try balance sufficient mastery and haste and have a rocket launcher spam instead of machine gun? time will tell. im just freaking annoyed cause we spent all this time finding gears with crit/haste(for me at least) with no mastery and have to switch it cause blizzard mess up the mastery.

Sadly, frost doesnt have anything interesting for me to try it again.


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Bananashroom



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re: DK info.

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scourge strike more hulk. seem like you prefering to melee.

looking at logs, me and aza have
ss>dc>melee>ss.
while you on the hand have
ss>melee>dc>ss

maybe you need more haste? i think im at like 1.8k+. seems like we rarely use dnd either. there's this magical dnd 11th damage tick that i think does more damage than a disease. might want to give that a try.

Gratz to hulk on using first aid lololol. i only carry them but rarely use it. actually i dont even use it. probably the last time was back in bc raid.

also, if you havent done it yet. hulk pointed out to me that if you stand on fire with ams up on atramedes. you get unlimited rp regen. this is useful for us to get our dark transformation up when he lands. so keep that in mind.


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Bananashroom wrote:

also, if you havent done it yet. hulk pointed out to me that if you stand on fire with ams up on atramedes. you get unlimited rp regen.


Fire also increases your sound. That seems to me like a good way to get unlimited death regen. Be careful.


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Hulkssmash



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re: DK info.

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Bananashroom wrote:
scourge strike more hulk. seem like you prefering to melee.

looking at logs, me and aza have
ss>dc>melee>ss.
while you on the hand have
ss>melee>dc>ss

maybe you need more haste? i think im at like 1.8k+.


Check out the actual number of hits Banana, I still hit SS more than either of you, you guys just hit harder. I'm still using that shitty 333 weapon, haven't seen an upgrade drop yet. Started working on my TB rep, but it's slow.

Bananashroom wrote:

seems like we rarely use dnd either. there's this magical dnd 11th damage tick that i think does more damage than a disease. might want to give that a try.


Yeah, the thing with DnD is that it is balanced so that IF EVERY TICK HITS, it is slightly more damage than a scourge strike or something. so theoretically, on a boss that doesnt move, you can keep DnD on CD with SS while its down for maximum dps.

but that assumes that every tick hits, if one or two ticks misses then you are better off with an SS. (i think that's how i read it, i could be wrong)

Bananashroom wrote:

Gratz to hulk on using first aid lololol. i only carry them but rarely use it. actually i dont even use it. probably the last time was back in bc raid.


Yeah, I don't know why but I think the healers hate me.

Bananashroom wrote:

also, if you havent done it yet. hulk pointed out to me that if you stand on fire with ams up on atramedes. you get unlimited rp regen. this is useful for us to get our dark transformation up when he lands. so keep that in mind.



So for a boss like Magmaw that stays still, its really cool. ... but i would rather use my DnD on the adds. Red phase of maliorak is a good chance to use it, but again, better to use on green phase. the new longer CD makes it more of an "intentional" cast rather than a "keep it down" cast.

GM Fright wrote:

That seems to me like a good way to get unlimited death regen. Be careful.


Fright is right about the sound. You should NEVER stand in fire. but if you're pro, you can go for a dip every now and then. AMS -> run through -> DCDCDC -> check sound, if safe, repeat. if not, wait for gong.

I was just looking for things to do during air phase, that shit on the ground isnt that hard to avoid, and Icy Touch only does so much damage....
Hulkssmash



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re: Re: expertise

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Hulkssmash wrote:
Hulkssmash wrote:


Now, i know the Exp cap is 23/26 for heroics and raids, but how important is that exactly? how does it stack up against haste?


Did some digging on the logs tonight, interesting stuff. more tomorrow, but for now, haste is clearly favored against exp, crit less so.



Expertise is nice, but I don't think it's as much of a damage driver as it looks. The way I was able to make sense of it is kinda like this:

(ignore my shitty math)

For a typical fight, you will miss about 26 times. for each point of expertise, you will miss one less time. if you have 26 expertise, you will miss 0 times. if you have 13 expertise, you will miss 13 times. 6:20, etc.

Obviously this changes based on the fight style, length, standing in front or behind the boss, blah blah, but bear with me to make the numbers work.


I'm going to use me and azakel as examples because I had 23 exp and he had 3, so its a big difference:

Overall,

Hulk - Melee
block 1.4
absorb .7
dodge .7
parry .6

Hulk - SS
block 1.1
absorb .5
dodge .1
parry 1.0

Hulk - FS
block .4
absorb 1.1
dodge 0.0
parry .7

Total % lost: 8.3

Az-Melee
block .9
absorb .8
dodge 3.4
parry 1.5


Az-SS
block 1.2
absorb .2
dodge 3.6
parry 1.8

Az-FS
block 2.1
absorb 1.2
dodge 2.4
parry .9

Total % lost: 20

(note: remember that these % are of that swing type, so it's not exact, but this helps me get a sense of what's going on in general. Also note, these numbers are from overall boss fights.)

Now, if you look EVEN more closely, you will see that I was getting A LOT more swings of melee and about the same number of swings of SS as Azakel, even though he had stacked haste and I had stacked expertise.

So how was I able to get more swings and therefore more damage? Was it expertise? Not really.

The biggest difference between me, nanners, and azakel was the Unholy Frenzy (20% haste) uptime.

Basically, since I kept mine up longer, I had greater haste overall, which lead to more swings, which lead to more damage. Everything else was relatively equal. We crit according to our percentages, but it wasn't a big damage driver either way.

Now, cooldowns like that will obviously throw off a controlled environment dps study, but it kinda works out like this:

HASTE IS KING. straight up, it rocks.

BUT!! it's not worth removing expertise to stack haste. the more haste you have, the more swings you have, sure. but the more swings you have, the more dps you risk losing due to lack of expertise.

There is some point where haste becomes more valuable than expertise overall. Theoretically it will be when you gain more swings than you miss. so if you have 0 exp and you miss 20 swings, but you are able to stack haste and get 40 EXTRA swings, it's probably worth it.

But math makes my brain hurt. HULK SMASH CALCULATOR.

Crit, on the other hand, didn't seem to help any of us much either way. We all crit according to our stat %, but even still, it didn't seem to be much of a driver for any of us. Sure it helped, but not nearly the same way unholy frenzy did. (keep in mind, 20% haste from UF is offset my the number of times you will miss during that period)



SOOOOOOO

after all that, my verdict on the expertise stat for unholy DK's?

Thumbs up!

How should DK's adjust their gear?

DO reforge mastery to 1) hit, 2) expertise, 3) haste.
DO reforge crit to 1) hit, 2) expertise, 3) haste.

Do NOT reforge haste to get expertise.
Do NOT gem expertise if you can get haste or strength.
Do NOT enchant expertise if you can get haste or strength.

After that, reforge any mastery and crit to haste.


I'm not sure why blizz designed expertise to be such an expensive stat, but that's what's up.

Of course, now that Unholy has a new mastery, who knows what will happen. The new mastery will affect both DC and the bonus damage of SS.

It WILL affect blood plague
It WILL NOT affect frost fever
It WILL affect DnD
It WILL affect BB
Hulkssmash



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Bananashroom wrote:

#showtooltip Unholy Frenzy
/cast [modifier:shift,target=Warrior'sName] Unholy Frenzy
/cast [nomodifier] Unholy Frenzy
/cast [nomodifier] Summon Gargoyle


Hey nanners, I used to have a macro like this, with Unholy and Gargoyle tied together since they both have a 3min CD, but i changed it since unholy and gargoyle have different requirements, so i want to cast them at different types of moments.

Now I have one that is
/castsequence reset=90 Might of the Ocean [trinket: +str], Blood Frenzy [racial: +AP], Unholy Frenzy [ability: +haste/-HP]

None of these spells have requirements besides their CD's and they are ordered both based on priority and cooldown. 1.5 min, 2 min, 3 min.

In a perfect world, i can do all this with one button (hint: it's my [1] button!)

0:00 MotO, BF, UF
1:30 MotO
2:00 BF
3:00 UF, MotO
4:00 BF
5:30 (MotO is now available, but not according to my macro because....)
6:00 UF, MotO

It is better to stack UF and MotO than to use them independently because haste+str combined rock. the AP of BF also stacks nicely with either of those, and it will sync up occasionally since i don't just spam my CD's as soon as they are available, I wait for good moments in the fight.
Bananashroom



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Unholy
Dark Transformation now increases pet damage by 80%, down from 100%.
The ratio of runic power return from Magic Suppression has been reduced by roughly one third.
Rage of Rivendare now increases strike damage by 12/24/36%, down from 15/30/45%.
Shadow Infusion now increases pet damage by 8% per stack, down from 10%.
Death Coil damage has been reduced by roughly 10%.



wow. i sense that i just might go back to frost if the dps difference isnt that far. i dont like to manage a pet and ghoul can be retardedly buggy at times.

Blood
Heart Strike now deals 175% weapon damage plus 15% per disease, up from 120% plus 10% per disease.
Improved Death Strike now increases the damage of Death Strike by 30/60/90%, up from 15/30/45%.

yay sterne!


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