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Bananashroom



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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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tried getting the healers to taunt just before going to phase 3? that will buy some time for dps. it be easier for pally healer and druid healer which you guys are probably lack off. shaman can do it too.

Certain classes might want to take note of your aggro table. i believe if possible you dont fade/fd/vanish at the start of phase 3 but instead wait til you have aggro. distracting shot doesnt work, but hunters could possible pop deterrence first then fd. priest can get to max range and pop fade before he gets too close. rogues can take turns popping evasion then vanish. also remember to save most if not all your cooldowns on that last phase.

But if getting to phase 3 with not enough time on the enrage timer, thats probably a dps issue or lack of people in raid.

thats my 2 cents.


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Hulkssmash



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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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Hikaro(KO wrote:

We're not making it to the last phase often, but when we do, I am sure to drink XX


Fix'd


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Griiiiiiimmer
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There is one thing I can think of about taunting. Rockbitter does increase our threat, frost shock is supposed to be a large threat spell, and rockbitter also lets us taunt.

I think if I only have to heal my group healing rain by itself on cooldown and chain heal will do enough without earthliving enchant. Like Hik pointed out, lots of overhealing done because we are just spaming crap to get that 10k health in time. And since threat doesn't degrade over time, if a shaman or two are allowed to taunt just one late in phase 1 we would be higher up on the threat chart if I remeber how taunts work. Something to consider but not sure its worthwhile to jump through so many hoops. Especially since tank deaths are still kind of an issue. Tbh I don't know what kills tanks since I am not assigned on them.
GM Fright
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Grim, you shamen should absolutely keep earthliving up during ph 1. What maybe you should do is right before ph2, as 21%, once everyone is topped off, throw rockbiter on and taunt. If you don't have time to taunt, then toss it on anyway and use your frost shock. This will at least put you above the DPS that are able to drop threat when they are about to be targetted (like myself), which they should all be doing, with the exception of maybe the rogues who can evasion tank for a bit, and the hunters who I guess can deterance tank for a bit.

The goal is to stay alive for as long as possible, not simply DPS until you die. That means, unlike in normal mode, dropping aggro BEFORE you are hit, because letting him smack you down to 1 health before dropping just means you're going to die on the next tick of the dot.

So when you're next, run away, and when he comes after you, drop aggro right before he gets to you, and keep DPSing. Then all those pesky resto shaman can die before you do, and you can keep killing the bastard.


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Griiiiiiimmer
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I don't know if its reasonable to taunt during the phase transition. I am sure all the healers and myself are blowing everything we got and using our most expensive spells so everyone is max between each caustic slime barrage. What is doable is taunting during one of the other feuds and push us higher on the threat list.
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Okay if your going to taunt this is how it will happen. I have it setup to where Hikaro will taunt at 22% of Chimaeron, then Sterne will taunt at 21% right as the Massacre happens we stack up on to heal to full.

If and when the shaman are going to taunt, I want you to taunt immediately as he starts casting Massacre. Reasons why;

1. Ensures you dont get hit by him
2. If you all taunt during as soon as he starts casting it, by the time hes done casting, he wont be taunt immune anymore and Sterne can taunt him when the Massacre finishes, thus placing the Aggro table as such going into P2

1. Sterne
2. Shammy 1
3. Shammy 2
4. Shammy 3
5. Hikaro
6. Masticus
7. Some dps

This is the best setup for shamans taunting going into P2. I will say this, if one of you taunts, whoever is next in aggro after Sterne had better be rdy to GTF to a corner OPPOSITE of Sterne. Sterne will be taking the boss to the top right corner of the room or as far as he can get before he dies. So the shammy taunting will need to go immediately to the bottom left corner of the room WHEN THE RAID IS TOPPED OFF and put your back to the wall, and be rdy to put your Earth Elemental totem down, this might work, IDK, try it, if it does the other shammies be rdy to do the same. This might buy us some precious time.
Griiiiiiimmer
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again, I really don't think that's doable during that transition since the cooldowns used to change our weapon enchants and taunt take away from raid healing.
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Trying to work rockbiter taunts is going to be really difficult. Wednesday night I tried puting it on in phase 2 and just hitting him with all I had, but since I'm resto that wasn't very much and I wasn't able to generate enough threat to be useful. Using up GCDs to switch weapon enchants, then cast an unleash without having people die will be difficult and potentially deadly for those we have to heal, but if we can't figure anything else out to help phase 2 we might as well give it a try.


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Yeetawh
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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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what could be done and in just one GCD is to have a back up weapon pre-imbued with rockbiter.


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Bananashroom



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is there no druid to go bear+barkskin and taunt or a pally turn on righteous fury and taunt? pally would probably be a decent choice cause they dont really hit much as healers(i think). resto shaman can still throw some lightning bolts.

but whatever it is, its probably wise to to do a little research on your class and post it here or somewhere to what each of you all needs to be doing on phase 3. communication will be helpful so that you know when to do those things and also aggro table mod or something.

As for dks, nothing really but to blow hard on chim, hope you parry/dodge some hits. use amz probably on the feud phase. if you are quick and someone is dead could throw a raise ally on a dead person. since every dps counts and before they change it to brez.

Edit: Nefarian will cast a shadow DoT spell on your whole raid called "Mocking Shadow," which deals one to two thousand damage per second to your entire raid. While you are still unable to heal players, you can mitigate the DoT with Power Word: Barrier, Raid Wall, Aura Mastery, and other personal cooldowns.

i reread the tankspot explanation and i found this. so if you forgot or dont know about it, you should now.


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GM Fright
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Anyone who didn't know about the shadow dot by now is too retarded to be raiding with us, but thanks for the input banana.


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Bananashroom



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sorry for that cause i havent done nor will i ever do the fight lol.

but from a dk perspective it could mean a couple of things for me. anti magic zone can help mitigate some of that damage. it also means that unholy dk can kill themselves faster with unholy frenzy. this awesome buff seems to hate us on this fight sadly, even on regular. damage over time also means unlimited rune power to spam death coil hence more abom ghoul uptime. sadly it seems there's only one dk still around nowadays. so you know what to do and you probably/hopefully have done it =p


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Tavie
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Random thoughts about this fight....

I would really like a night of 25 raiders with stable connections, I know it doesn't help to solve all the problems we have in downing this boss, but I think most of our attempts have been with 23 or so people. And, while it doesn't explain everything, it does have a profound effect on the feel of the encounter.


To me this fight hinges on 3 core synergies, the most obvious our DPS output being all it can be in PH2, PH2 is a DPS check no matter how you slice it. If we are not double potting, using cooldowns, raiding in their lucky clothes, whatever in phase 2, then we should remedy that. Even healers should have DPS pots to burn if possible. The only observation I have here is that I have not been seeing Armies, Demons, and elementals running around on every attempt. Every dps, even healers, should be examining what they can do in PH2 to up their numbers.

As a side note, in phase 1 DPS should avoid killing themselves. SP's, DK's, any class who can cause dmg to themselves with a DPS attack, be mindful of your timing. This happens quite often in my observation, I usually inspect the logs on the run back to see why people died early. Also, everyone needs to be mindful of keeping range with each other in phase 1. Double slimes kill quite a few people often. There is plenty of room, use it.

Since we are often bringing in people in this fight to fill the roster, we need every member understanding the fight mechanics that most of us have been painfully learning the last few weeks. On our Wednesday night attempts, range was a big issue in our last few pulls, double slimes were killing people and some of those healers which we can't afford to lose. These are the simple things that should not exist.

The last 2 are the tank and healing coordination. Each is critical to success. While the tanks have had their issues, those seem to be worked out after a few pulls. I don't have much to say here, other than, clearly the tanks know they need to perform for us to be successful and seem to be working it out.

Which brings me to heals, we clearly have issues here and I am not sure what to fix. I wish I understood how our healing core approached the fight. Maybe on monday we should have a brainstorming session on vent before the raid to think it out.

I am usually in a group with locks and sp's, so I have bandwidth to roll hots on the tanks. For most of the fight, I keep rejuvs up on all the tanks and myself, and roll LB's on the double attack tank. As we approach Feud, I move my Lifeblooms to the fued tank (pre announcing this by Mast or Fright is much appreciated), I try to roll Lifeblooms on the fued tank before the preceeding massacre and try to pop off a pre heal assuming I don't need to heal a group member. It is a little challenging, but I start casting before the massacre and it have it land just after. I also tend to let my LB expire. Assuming the feud tank is topped off, I switch to spreading rejuv to all my party members, popping wild growth, and swiftmend and spamming nourish to help get the raid up and rolling LB on the feud tank. Pretty much it is a rinse and repeat from here. I do pop wild growth after every massacre, its kinda reflex now.

Issues I struggle with are largely RNG oriented. If multiple party members are slimed before the massacre, then I have very little time to get them both up and have to rely on either the smart heals others are casting or the dots criting and nourish criting. Nourish is a 2 sec cast, and often that is the time between slimes and massacre. To minimize this effect, I will roll a rejuv on the bottom member in my group and target him for the wild growth which seems to help.

Sorry for the wall of text, but the only thing I can think of to fix the healing issues is to start with understanding how others are approaching the fight. On the meters I see big numbers, but we seem to be occasionally failing at having the right heals, in the right place, at the right time.

One final comment on DPS dying to Massacre/Slime. Its going to happen occasionally, there is a huge RNG factor at play here. If the total of heals does not add to 10K before the massacre, the player dies. From looking at the logs, periodically the player gets to 9XXX from the heals they receive, every heal rolled craps and was on the low end of the spectrum. In this case, the DPS didn't die cause they didn't get healed, just that the heals were weak sauce. The healer can't control that. However, they can understand their class well enough and figure out if there is a mana investment that can minmize the occurence of it without compromising their longevity.

My 2cp on this fight.


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Griiiiiiimmer
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one thing to consider are designated back up healers. Say group 2 doesn't get hit at all and group 4 has 3 people hit. Only the healer from group one can help group 4. This way we can play hero but for only one group. Otherwise I run into the issue where I am healing some random group and mid cast my group is hit 3 times.
Sterne1140
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Tavie, are you assigned to tank heals, or are you you just throwing up heals to help out? If this is the case then that is part of the problem imo. The tanks are actually in good shape as long as the healers are keeping pace with who is the current feud tank and if it happens to be the feud that I need a healer cooldown.

I can almost heal myslef when not taking a double strike or a feud. Hikaro mitigates almost all his damage. I think the issue were seeing is what Klik pointed out. There is to much overlap healing going on. Healers first and foremost have to keep themselves alive, keep their assignments alive and be aware of where they are standing. Trust your teamate to handle his/her assignment.

Once again I gotta say that it is DPS responsibility to also keep an eye on their health. If we are 5 seconds out from a Massacre and your health is 12k or less then you should be ACTIVELY seeking out some way to increase it. Self heals such as deathstrike,VE for SP's, Life wells, Lock Rocks, Bandages, Whatever! If you have died to a massacre and you still have a healthstone in your pack then you have failed. Dead dps does no damage. Simple as that.


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