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GM Fright
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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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We're still missing a few healers from this conversation.


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Yeetawh

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I don't know if I want to assign backup healers for parties like grim said. The idea is nice but I don't know how well it will work out. Here is an example of what I mean:
Group1 doesn't get hit with slimes. Group2 gets gangbanged by slimes and has 4 members hit. The healer of group one tries to help out group2 but oh no they healed the same person as the healer in group2 and someone still didn't get heals and died.

I personally think the best way to help out group healers is the way the groups are set up and where the players are. Tavie is the lucky one who gets the self healing classes, I would prefer to have those people spread out more. Then for the rest of the people on the party to be preferably stack up near each other so AoE heals can hit them.
On Wednesday my group changed to mostly melee dps, which was pretty nice because if more than one got hit I could chain heal to get them up faster. But shib has been nice and is dropping healing rain on the melee so that is an extra hand for all us healers, not that we should rely on it, but I'm sure it has saved a life once or twice.

I don't think I've ever had an issue with a heal not being powerful enough to get someone over 10k. I reforged into mastery since for a shaman it increases the potency of a heal depending on the health of the target, so since people are so low the whole time I get nice sexy heals. I'm not trying to be sassy, I'm just taking advantage of my class abilities, other shaman should feel free to give it a try if they want to, it seems to work well.

I also started casting healing rain on a group of ranged dps who was near me. Since shib has one in melee, I put mine down on some ranged to help out. Then when my party is good, I spam extra heals on the tanks. Generally I don't have mana issues so I can afford to just help out on the tanks, but I know my group is my top priority.

So basically what I would be interested in trying is to split up the self-healers into more groups to take the pressure off group healers, then try to have people of the same group stand in the sameish area, basically for shamans. Also perhaps have people toss down an aoe healing circle on a group of 3-4 people if they are able.


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Yeetawh
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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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Yes Sterne part of my assigned duties are to assist with tank heals. While it is not my sole focus as it is with the "tank" healers, it is part of my duties. Rolling the rejuv' on the tanks also helps keep a haste buff up on me so my nourish and healing touch spells cast a half a second faster which is important to me in group healing.

It is in part why Fright sets the groups up the way he does. Only a few members of my group really need my heals, the locks are fairly self sufficient as are the SPs when they don't kill themselves. IMO the hots I put on the tanks cut down or minimize the random events that can happen, not to mention there is a lock in the raid that loves me with keeping DI stacked.

My perception of the healing issues is not overlap but rather reactive vs proactive healing. I am going to analyze the logs in more detail to get a since of if this is accurate or not. At this point it is merely an anacdotal theory.


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I like yeetawh's idea of consolidation, I know I was trying to do that with my group.

Another layer is making sure to have everyone be within 12 yards from player two or three players. Hopefully that will get more people under a healing rain, its easy to get at least 4 in one, and chain heals will bounce across one side of the room to the other. The only way to do that though is making boss tactics mandatory. Its an addon that can give a shared layout of everyone's position for every phase. Won't help positioning unless most people have it thought

http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/boss-tactics.aspx
Klik
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Here's what I've gotten into the groove of doing on this fight. I drop a lightwell near/in melee and PoM the dps tank to set up Chakra. When the fight starts I'll put Sanctuary on the tank area and drop a renew on everyone in the tank group before I have to start worrying about anyone in my group getting slimed.

I've gotten geared to the point where my PoH (+glyph +mastery) will hit my whole group for right around 10k. I usually target the middle of my groups' raid frame and cast PoH and CoH. PoH takes care of all five of us because I try and make sure everyone is within the 35yd range. I cast CoH immediately after, it's a smart heal so it will hit the lowest people near my target (be it my group or another group member in the vicinity). While it may seem wasteful to constantly cast my AoE heal I've tried using FH and BH but while they are fast they are expensive as hell and I end up scraping the bottom of my mana barrel the entire fight and have on a few early occasions lost people because of it.

My group is covered now for the whole fight because PoH will take care of us.. it's mana efficient enough with my fiend and all the mana tides that I rarely drop below 75% mana. I keep chakra going, which with my 4set bonus gives me even more spirit to help my regen (can't wait til patch 4.1 when chakra lasts until cancelled). Sometimes PoH is a little bit of overheal when only one of my group gets slimed but it is amazing when 4 of us do.

When I have a spare GCD I'll try and drop renew on a tank or on Sav if she's low just to help out, when I was running in her role keeping the tanks up left little time to keep renew on myself.. but she's much better at Disc than I am.

When we stack I drop another sanctuary and then spam PoH and CoH on CD pretty much like I do the whole fight. GS is saved for the Fued Sterne will need our CDs.

The part I was talking about with over-extending ourselves is where the RNG comes in. Only one of my group gets slimed so I CoH and try and drop PoH on another group (this is usually where things have gone wrong for me) Mid-cast three from my group drop to 1hp and I'm punching buttons like mad to try and get them above 10k before the next shot kills them. (that's where I lose someone). I have started trusting that the other group healers have it under control and focus solely on my assigned group, putting a renew here and there when I have a round where my group doesn't get hit.

Tavie mentioned reactive vs proactive healing and I'd have to say we can't really rely on trying to be reactive in this fight. If we're waiting for say, the double tank to drop and then casting, you probably have all the tank healers going "oh shit" and trying to heal him at the same time, meanwhile another one dies.. I don't know for sure but it seems like this "might" be what's happening when we lose a tank.



and yes I'm trying to win the Wall of Text award in this thread.


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Tavie
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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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We need more healers posting here..

Where are the tank healer comments? Felix, Sav, I forget who the third is.. designated shaman center healer.. Kaasi, Saurial, Pex all thoughts are appreciated.

Fued Tanks are dying and we need to figure out why. Would be most awesome if you guys could jump into the conversation.

How are you approaching healing phase 1? What are you doing as we transition into Feud? What are your priorities? Are you pre casting to land heals post massacre?

The more input we have the easier time we will have spotting the issue and addressing it.


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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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It seems easily doable for resto druids since all they need to do is pop bear form and hit taunt. Should be easy as well for paladins since they have a taunt as well. It seems like it'd be a bit iffy with shamans though but definitely doable. I think if we get this done right where three or four healers can hold the boss before the tanks do, that should let us hit down an extra million health or so.


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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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final suggestion.

i had a little chat with mast about it.

Going phase 2 during fued vs going phase 2 after feud.

read a little comment about people stopping at 21% during fued, topped everyone up after the massacre and push it to phase 2. seems to be easier to handle without all the caustic slime on the whole raid, and people have time to spread out and healers can taunt.


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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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There has been a lot of good input above, and I'd like to throw out one item we haven't heard yet.

It seems like there are two recurring issues causing most of our wipes.

1) Tank deaths, especially during fued and fued transitions.
--Enough has been said on this topic above, moving on.

2) Not enough time on burn phase.
--There are some basic tips that will help on this, most of which has been covered above (melee at max distance, double pots, healthstones at 21%, CD's and CD Pets, freaking bandages, etc.)

However, this guild has a lot of high caliber players who already do all that stuff, so it seems to me like we require a mechanics change to extend the amount of time the dps has during that phase.

[Mechanic]
Chim has a GIANT hit box.

[Problem]
The problem is this comes to bite us in the ass (not a kiting pun) while we are trying to burn. Kiting is all well and good, but if a dps stops hitting Chim for 5 sec to reposition, and then still get's wailed on because they are still within Chim's range, they might as well have stood still and kept unloading.

[Potential Solution]
Don't keep Chim in the middle of the room for the final Massacre at 21%.

As it stands, we are giving Chim the biggest advantage possible, he can stay in one spot and cover the vast majority of the available space without having to move more than a step or two.

Since every second counts in this fight, I was looking at where we have downtime, and the only time is when we are holding dps to wait for the final massacre.

What if, during this time, we move him to one far corner, and turn him around so his butt is tucked against the wall. This will put his "Center" at the farthest possible position, and then actually giving the 2nd tank some kiting take as Chim has to run alllll the way across the room, instead of just a few steps.

The goal of this change is to reduce the percentage of the very small raid space that Chim can cover with his melee strikes. If he stands in the middle he has maximum strike coverage (100% of the circle surrounding him), but by holding him in a corner we can reduce that by up to 75%.

[Enrage Nuance]
We have previously talked about his enrage not being that big of a deal on this fight. (If he's gonna 1 shot you before enrage, hes gonna 1 shot you after...), but if you examine the strategy in this new light the enrage actually becomes very significant. Not only does he increase AP and speed, but he increases size, theoretically increasing his strike range. This gives him a greater percentage of the room he can hit without having to move. I am not 100% if this is true, but maybe someone can confirm.


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Savallia

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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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Sorry for tardy response had a very long and stressful weekend my strategy is as follows-

Bubble-PoM-penance on pickup, smite, renew cds(weakened soul, PoM, penance), smite, toss accessory heals where/when necessary, pre cast greater heal for feud massacre bubble as running to center when applicable, PoM, penance on arrival to center, smite/heal.

Also as for my own survival klik I glyphed dispel magic so I have an instant cast for myself should there come a pinch moment before a massacre and I see no incoming heals (or they don't look to be arriving in time) so I double cast dispel magic to guarantee my healtj will be over 10k

Its pretty well rinse and repeat the above with the exception of healer cd feud in which I the above with the exception I pain suppression the tank than penance. Than reapply all cds, continue smiting.

Phase 3- bubble all in range, pop fiend (I generally pop him near beginning so he is off cd for this phase, smite till I can reapply bubbles, rinse repeat. Pop pain suppression on tank if possible in beginning


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Savallia

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I really recommend getting the dispel magic glyph for the shear fact its n instance 4-8k heal (for me most likely even more for you) it saves hineys in a pinch as far as your group is concerned and doesn't cost even half as much as a flash or binding


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Griiiiiiimmer
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Did you use this in the last fight? Shaman have a talent called cleansing waters or some such that is similar but a debuff must be dispelled for it to proc.
GM Fright
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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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I can't get over this fight. I'm having difficulties moving on.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/03/25/raid-rx-best-practices-for-healing-heroic-chimaeron/

This suggests almost the exact thing that Hulk suggested tonight: assigning a raid healer to each Raid Icon mark during the caustic slimes. It also got me thinking a little differently about our group make-ups.

I absolutely hate moving on when the current boss is not dead yet. I hate it so much. It makes me feel like a failure.


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GM Fright
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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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H-Chim Strat thing wrote:

Phase 3 hints: Have your holy paladins heal with Righteous Fury during phase 1-2 so that they will have very high threat when Phase 3 hits. This way, Chimaeron will go for the useless healers (sorry, but you are in this phase) before the precious DPS. The longer the DPS lives, the higher the chance of success. DPS, use agro-dump abilities to ensure longer survival.

Absorptions still work, so have your priests toss Power Word: Shield every which way.

If you are using warrior tanks, and their Last Stand is ready during phase 3, have them wait with using it until they drop below 10k health. The buff is still active, allowing for warrior tanks to use Last Stand to get back above 10k health once taken below, thus surviving longer. Also, Intervene has never been more useful as a protection warrior. Even to the point where it's worth using a SS to get back up during this phase, so you can allow DPS'ers to stay alive through Intervene, when the boss is about to finish them off.

Hunters and rogues can stay alive for a terribly long time through perfect use of Evasion and Deterrence (and if MM, Readiness and Deterrence once again!).

Your tanks can also move to 4 different corners as soon as the phase begins, to prolong running time for Chimaeron. However, this will also mean more running for your melee DPS.

Tank-myth: Strafing constantly while tanking increases your chance of dodging Chimaerons attacks. I personally don't do this, but there is a rumor that it works through a bug. Feel free to try it out, only thing you'll lose is street credit when you look like a tap-dancing reject.


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GM Fright
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re: Heroic Chimaeron

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I feel like I have some real winner ideas.

How's this sound:
Healer positioning so that you never move at all!
Two Disc priests and a setup that makes them very useful in ph2!
New group layouts that maximizes healer potential and minimizes healer waste!
Simple, linear, hard to fuck up ph2 kiting plan!
Never worry about a healer dying in ph1 EVER AGAIN!


Despite my promises, we just might revisit this guy again this week, if only for a short time to quickly try a couple new things and see if they are effective. We'll see.


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