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Amminidabtree

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re: Possible Merger *Important*

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The officers have been discussing with the recruiting officer from Who Is John Galt about a possible merger with both guilds. Nothing is too serious at the moment as we have only discussed with each other for one night. The biggest concern that we officers have is to keep you guys taken care.

As of now, the biggest issues that we are concerned about are raid days, raid times, and how open you are to this merger. The most important thing that anyone can do right now is to communicate your thoughts and concerns. If you have an issue with something, let an officer know. If you're enthusiastic about the possibility of a merger, let us know. Your input is very important about the future of the guild. This doesn't mean that you're only allowed to talk about this merger right now, please give your opinions on 10-man progression, recruiting, or anything that could benefit The Art of Ruin.

For Monday's raid, we need everyone to show up so we can all discuss which raid days and times will best fit us as a guild. Let me make this clear. EVERYONE NEEDS TO SHOW UP. Monday's raid will be the best time to discuss with everyone your concerns or time constraints with the officers. If you don't show up and aren't able to get your input with raid times, we might not be able to weigh in your thoughts as heavily if you were in the raid when the raid starts. I understand some people have real life issues. We officers understand, real life happens and we will not block out your thoughts on raid times, but if you decide not to show up because you have to go to a party or you need to kill a fucking dragon in skyrim, your opinion is less important than that of a raider who showed up. Please be online or at least in vent for Monday's raid.

Please keep an open mind about this possible merger. There is a possibility to get back into raiding as a 25-man guild. If you have any thoughts or concerns, feel free to vent them out towards any officer. Your opinion matters as much, if not more, than any officer here.

To recap what was said, show up on Monday's raid, discuss your concerns, keep an open mind.

A wise man once said: "...This is not a Democracy. This is not a Dictatorship. This is not socialism, communism, marxism, venture capitalism, government bailouts, wellfare, roth IRAs or 401k's. I am ... not [an] elected official here to serve you.

This is a TEAM.

We are the raiding team called The Art of Ruin. We are out to compete and win championships by killing bosses."

Discuss your thoughts.


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Somosito
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I'm just wondering who all is left in Galt? They had some real dick bags, but I haven't seen any names around whenever I've been online.

I have no hesitation to tell you how much I hate 10 man raids. I would 100% rather not raid than raid a 10 man, even if it's progression. I'll still do it, of course, until we can get back into the 25 man game. I also feel like I'm not the only person that shares this opinion, at least the part about not liking 10 mans if not wanting to skip them altogether.

I'd be up for it. I'll be here on Monday, too.


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kaasi
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i don't think there is any way out two guilds could mesh together. i'll just leave it at that


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Lydecker Lies
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Kaasi, that was a little vague, could you ellaborate a bit, please? Why wouldn't it work, in your opinion?

Reminding everyone that our options are:
-Merging with Galt;
-Looking for another one to try it out with;
-Officially turning into a 10 man guild;
-Officially turning into a 10 man guild, but keep on recruiting so that we can have 2 10 man teams and eventually one 25 man team;
-Dance party in Org.

Personally, I'd rather go with the next to last option.


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kaasi
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galt raids till 11 server four nights a week (2AM EST)
that alone cuts half of us out right there

also i have NEVER experienced or read of a guild merger that has worked out long term


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Lydecker Lies
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I agree with you, they are indeed pretty rare.

But we are trying to work out better times for us, in that regard. What would you rather happened to the guild, of the options above?


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Tavie
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re: Possible Merger *Important*

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First, let me say that I am leaning against a merger. This is largely because, while I prefer 25man, I am content with doing 10man progression with our core group. I have not warmed up to the idea of raiding another night and a little later on the east coast. However, I also have to look at the needs of the guild as a whole, and by guild I don't meant the AoR tag, I mean the lot of you who deserve more than we can offer right now.

This is being considered only because the vast majority of you have expressed a desire to get back to 25man progression and a merger of sorts is a means of accomplishing that goal.

Please keep in mind, that while Galt may have started this train, we do not have to choose them or anyone, we could possibly look for a merger opportunity elsewhere, even on other servers, if folks are willing to pay for a transfer.

Galt currently raids, tues, thurs, fri, and sunday from 7pm - 11pm server. In our conversations, they indicated that they would adjust their nights and change their raid times slightly to accomodate us. They are tentatively thinking Sun, Tues, Wed, Thurs, 7pm - 10:30pm(maybe 10). This of course is a little later for us and an additional night.

There are some other issues that have been discussed and addressed including rank transfer, leadership representation in galt, and the change in loot system. They use an epgp system.

As to workability, I think the leadership in both guilds understands that mergers fail more often than succeed. Largely because the new guild is concieved as 2 sub groups instead of 1 team. That is something we discussed. If this is attractive to any of you, you should be open to the idea of accepting the Galt identity. It can only succeed if we approach this as one team, and that is sentiment expressed on both sides.

It is worth noting that as a guild, who has a tradition of server firsts and being the top guild on the server, Galt's standards of performance are higher than what we have been used to recently. I have no doubt that most us can exceed that standard, but there are some of you who may not. I know for many this can be both exciting and terrifying, so consider to what degree you want to move into this culture in pursuit of 25man progression.

We can discuss in more detail tonight Galt and the merger possibility, but keep in mind that if we were to consider any merger to get back to 25man, we would be dealing with similar issues. So first ask yourself this question, are you willing to raid at different days and times to get back to 25man progression?

In my opinion this is only being considered because we are a long way off from returning to 25man progression. 4.3 is weeks away, and for those of you who would really like to down heroic content while it is current, this is the most expeditious path.

Alternatively, we will likely keep pushing 10man progression. However, we will be returning to the standards of old. We have let a lot of behavior slide in an effort to keep the roster up in a wishful hope of returning to 25man progression. This will change immediately. While we will continue to recruit a second 10man team, we will be doing so with people who sign up consistantly, show up consistantly, are focused during raids, and have done their homework vis-a-vis the content.
Tavie
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For those who were unable to attend our discussion last night before raid, after a lengthy conversation, the consensus of the guild was not to pursue a merger with Galt at this time.

The major reasons were:
1. Since they are able to field a team of 17-18 raiders now, there was concern that they would only use/keep 7-8 of us and the rest would be s.o.l.

2. Many found the raid times and additional raiding day incompatible with their schedule. Raiding to 1:30am, 4 nights a week is tough on the east coast crowd in particular.

3. We would lose our ability to kill Serj on a regular basis since Galt is serious business!
Aarroun
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kaasi wrote:
galt raids till 11 server four nights a week (2AM EST)
that alone cuts half of us out right there

also i have NEVER experienced or read of a guild merger that has worked out long term


Ah, just as a side note: the current Art of Ruin is a merger between itself and the former Absolution, of which I (Aarroun/Aernor) was a member.

Though a decision has been made already, my 2 cents is that Galt is too serious about the game and being with them would be depressing.
GM Fright
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twilightkirin wrote:

Ah, just as a side note: the current Art of Ruin is a merger between itself and the former Absolution, of which I (Aarroun/Aernor) was a member.


That's a moderately accurate statement, though the type of "merger" that formed the 25 man version of AoR was more like a "re-merger" of previously joined, temporarily divided pieces. Or maybe more accurately: we married our twin sister.
The merger of two completely different guilds, with different agendas, schedules, philosophies, and atmospheres is a different type of animal.

I think you guys have made the right choice, and I think the officers are thinking/saying/doing all the right things to make sure the interests of the guild AND its membership are being placed front and center with every decision. That being among the primary principals the guild was founded on, I'd say you folks couldn't be in better hands to make sure the right choices are made at every turn, no matter the circumstances.


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Somosito
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Speaking of cuntbags, hi Fright. ilu <3

As for the merger, I'll say this:

It would've been very easy/convenient for me to just quit WoW when my computer died, and just as easy/convenient for me to have been removed. I hate 10 man raids probably more than anyone here, but I'm just as content to keep waiting until we have 25 people because of the members of this guild. Even if Serj is tanking lava walls and Acoa is running into lava and blaming others, this guild has been nothing short of amazing since I've joined, even though we don't always play like it. This guild has been well designed/managed for a long time, and is (in my opinion) continuing down that path. The real solution won't be easy I'm sure, and it probably won't be here by 4.3, but as long as the leadership here is willing to keep trying, I'll be sticking around, waiting patiently. I'm pretty sure there are many others here who feel similar.

Kudos to everyone other than Serj, Tavie, and Mini. You three suck.

P.S. - Fright are you in the D3 beta?


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Amminidabtree

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Oh hey, it's Fright!

Also, fuck you Somo.


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Somosito
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Amminidabtree wrote:
Also, fuck you Somo.


Your place or mine?


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kaasi
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Somosito wrote:
The real solution won't be easy I'm sure, and it probably won't be here by 4.3, but as long as the leadership here is willing to keep trying, I'll be sticking around, waiting patiently. I'm pretty sure there are many others here who feel similar.



with 4.3 comes LFR so nights where we only get 15 people on we can all queue up and raid together.

GM Fright wrote:
twilightkirin wrote:

Ah, just as a side note: the current Art of Ruin is a merger between itself and the former Absolution, of which I (Aarroun/Aernor) was a member.


That's a moderately accurate statement, though the type of "merger" that formed the 25 man version of AoR was more like a "re-merger" of previously joined, temporarily divided pieces.


that is pretty much what i said in guild the other night when someone brought up the AOR "merger"

it really wasn't. what it was was 2 splinter guilds coming back together


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Siletense
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GM Fright wrote:
I'd say you folks couldn't be in better hands to make sure the right choices are made at every turn, no matter the circumstances.


A more true statement could not have been said.
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